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I have seen one picture of an A that had a serious dent in its nose. No one apparently did studies on the issue and so no data very important to stealth. Boeing will on their own dime pay to redo the vision system. Maybe they will buy it from Airbus? In contrast to the derived KC frankentanker and its frankenboom, the AM was a new clean-sheet development programme. The major mistake that Airbus EADS made with respect to the AM was to sign a fixed-priced contract with the governments of France, Germany, Spain and the UK — instead of a cost-plus contract which is normal for a new clean-sheet developmental effort.

Contracts such as the KC effort are part of a broader move by the DoD to shift more of the risk to contractors. But this type of fixed-price contract does not work for a new clean-sheet developmental effort. Airbus consider including the engine development contract as part of the airframe development as the major mistake they made with AM. No one ever does that, civil or military. Lets shut off all the electronic stuff so i can talk to the satellites and back to the pentagon to overcome my own interferences.

Ooppss, rats, we got hit by a darn exocet… and french for all thing!! I have to say the norwegian incident really made me laught. Like in the Nerdelands where the army has the right to go on strike. Scraping the skin outside the receptacle area on a stealth aircraft by boom operators on KCs and KCs is not something that happens very often. Looking back at my first few years in the Air Force, I was fortunate enough to refuel the F Nighthawk on several occasions, however it was always during the day time. At night was another story. Daytime refueling with a stealth was stressful enough.

Receiver aircraft simply flew to where they knew the tanker would be and got enough fuel to get back to home base so that they could reload and launch again. It was an all out free for all. However, Air Force test communities have complained that certain lighting conditions cause the imagery provided to the boom operator to be misleading, contributing to cases where the boomer accidentally scrapes the skin of the receiver aircraft. For aircraft with low-observable coating, such mistakes could result in the loss of stealth and a hefty repair bill. Boeing previously maintained it could update its software to fix RVS problems, while the service was more reluctant to put its faith in that proposed solution.

Once the Air Force was able to understand how the RVS distorted imagery under certain conditions, the service was able to more firmly articulate the requirements Boeing must meet for an acceptable RVS, but those parameters will surely entail hardware changes — potentially very extensive ones. Perhaps you know more about when and where those other alleged incidents supposedly occurred.

The boom then became uncontrollable and oscillated until it broke off the boom assembly at the pivot point. At the time of the incident, Airbus had not begun deliveries. Boeing and the USAF currently disagree on the prevalence of the boom scraping problem. The boom strike problem bashing through a windscreen or denting the skin is different and way more serious and not a problem that the KC has. The Defense News article also says nothing about how often boom scraping occurs, but it does say the RVS issues occur only under certain lighting conditions.

In contrast, a boom operator looking at the receiving aircraft with a direct, unimpeded view from the back of a KC should be able to tell if the boom is scraping the receiving aircraft outside the protected area around the refueling receptacle — no matter what bilbo is saying. You do have to keep in mind the ever changing Air Force and our greedy need for new technology when deciding on becoming a Boom. We do have the Boeing KC Pegasus coming online soon and the boom pod, with its huge bay windows facing aft, will eventually be a thing of the past. There was a time when I was at the back of the jet with my Bose headset on and the noise cancellation activated and it was like total peace.

So quiet and peaceful looking out the rear of the jet, with nothing on my mind. Then, on other days you would take off, the APU Auxiliary Power Unit would catch on fire, and the smoke alone was enough to suffocate you. We would dump 10, pounds of fuel while in the overhead pattern above base and land the plane in an emergency. When you fly in machines that are getting up to almost 60 years in age you really never know what the day will bring. This is like flying an F-4 versus an F This is the second time around in this thread that you write something that is demonstrably false.

First time around, you inflated the number of boom loss incidents on in-flight refueling testing on A MRTTs, from two to five. Eight flights were conducted in total with the F in different load configurations. The resultant instructions will allow the F to refuel from the KC in future coalition operations. Kourelakos says the RAAF has de facto become a key force knitting the coalition together by acquiring clearance to refuel more and more aircraft. And at the time of the interview it was acquiring certification for the P-8A.

The goal is to keep expanding the number of aircraft the KCA can refuel, strengthening the knot already tying RAAF Air Mobility Group to its coalition counterparts, while being a pioneering force with its new tanker for the other coalition partners flying the AMRTT. In short, the Aussies are leading by example and forging a new path to innovation by putting new assets, such as the KCA, into the hands of the warfighter to ensure that new combat capability gets fielded more rapidly than by the older requirements-led process.

I read the entire article when you first posted the link, and what do you know, nothing in the article answers whether or not the boom scraping issue is worse with the KC that it is with prior platforms. The article was great, by the way. I enjoy reading first hand accounts of military operations. Again, a case of a lengthy quote not really supporting your argument.

Under all lighting conditions? Ever heard of glare? And by golly, this happens to be an issue on the KC as well. Humans will never see the same kind of lens flares that you get from a camera. Lenses with large numbers of elements such as zooms tend to exhibit greater lens flare, as they contain a relatively large number of interfaces at which internal scattering may occur. Although boom operators obviously have binocular vision and depth perception perspective and aerial perspective, etc. It would appear, though, that glare is still less of an issue for a boom operator having a direct, unimpeded view of the receiving aircraft from the back of KC, than what is the case for boom operators on the KC when the degree panoramic field of view camera is seriously affected by lens flare.

Abstract— The goal of integrating drones into the civil airspace requires a technical system which robustly detects, tracks and finally avoids aerial objects. Electro-optical cameras have proven to be an adequate sensor to detect traffic, especially for smaller aircraft, gliders or paragliders. However the very challenging environmental conditions and image artifacts such as lens flares often result in a high number of false detections. Depending on the solar radiation lens flares are very common in aerial images and hard to distinguish from aerial objects on a collision course due to their similar size, shape, brightness and trajectories.

Lens flares are an artifact occurring in optical lens systems if light is internally reflected or scattered in between the optical elements. This usually happens if a bright light source is within or close to the camera field of view. Glare and low sun angles.

Findings suggest that low sun angles are a problem for receiver pilots. Low sun angles can make it difficult for the receiver pilot to see the necessary references to keep formation or maintain the appropriate refueling envelope. According to the findings low sun angles do cause a problem for boom operators. Yeah, after the better part of a decades worth of development, I should hope the Airbus EADS self-funded boom would be good to go.

Wow, that makes total sense. It must be pretty cool being in the know and having access to the KC refueling test reports. Seriously now, stop making things up. Could lens flare be an issue with the RVS? By the way, lens flare happens in the human eye. Have you ever seen starbursts when driving at night with intense street lights in your field of view? You taking the Washington Post comments section seriously still gives me a laugh. Nice try, though. A false claim is the term used when a person knowingly makes an untrue statement or claim to gain a benefit or reward.

It appears as if your anger override your rational thought when you manage to write such nonsense. The main culprit is glare at low sun angles. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Unsurprisingly, it may appear though as if you have completely misunderstood the meaning and usage of the term FUD. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt or FUD for short denotes a deliberate public relations propaganda campaign, most often intended to frighten consumers away from considering alternate products or services.

Trumpsters seem to get all riled up when anyone mentions the Washington Post. Detection of COTR is required to determine if contact caused damage and to comply with standard air refueling procedures. Final determination of specification compliance will occur after flight testing is complete. No one associated with the program mentioned that the RVS problem is caused by lens flare. General said. That says way more about you than it does about me, as you arrogantly seem to think you know more about what is going on in my head than I do.

Yet you expect that people here will take your typo claim at face value. Well, apply what you said in the quote above to the following links and see who emerges as the cheerleader. Last year, Boeing maintained it could update its software to fix RVS problems. The requirements that Boeing now must meet will surely entail hardware changes — potentially very extensive ones.

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Fleetbuzz was seemingly a Safe Haven for Boeing enthusiasts who loathed Airbus. Obviously very many of the near- and not-so-near-term orders will be fulfilled, but how far out can we look with confidence — even less certainty — that these aircraft will be delivered? Boeing will pay for fixing this, not the US taxpayer. However, the US taxpayer will have to pay for the other remaining problem which was caused by the USAF failure to correctly state the boom resistance requirement. There were other problems that were downgraded in importance because Boeing has already engineered and tested the necessary fixes.

As for the public relations disaster, you cite the comments section of the Washington Post?! Who in their right mind gives commenters on news or blog articles any credence at all? While the WP does excellent government article, its expertise in aviation like most papers sucks. Domonic Gate with the ST is one of the few that is good, but then its the heart of American Aviation, there is a knowledgeable audience there and they have a darned good reporter for it.

OV99 just does not get the real world, the possibility of the contract being canceled can be express as Kelvin as I recall that is F or so. That does not mean Boeing does not have egg on its face nor do the issues get swept under the rug, it just means Boeing keeps paying. As for the bid, we keep hearing how the vaunted A has paid for itself so they should be able to sell those for chump change.

OV99 as a non tax payer does not have his money in this game. And by being foolish, he just makes himself look as foolish as his twin engine A was. I think the hilarious tanker selection forced by congress, the tailored additional requirements, fired executives, resulting products, the number of airforces that selected them tell enough. Pork barrel defense project if you ask me.

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The fact of the matter is that Boeing is in breach of contract. They should have delivered 18 operational KCs by August One option would be to curtail the order at a lower number than expected. Of course, Thompson and Boeing want to build a sense of expectant inevitability that the KC will be the only tanker in operation for USAF for at least the next half century. The tanker contract that Boeing won in envisioned building tankers.

However, the actual Air Force requirement is for three times that number. The plan in was that new competitions would be held for the remaining planes. The Air Force now has begun signaling that it might be more cost-effective to recapitalize the entire aerial-refueling fleet with KC and avoid a repetition of the bruising competitions leading to the current program. OV99 is Better than Sunday foot ball games US football not the round ball thingy the rest of the world plays.

An exclamation mark usually shows strong feeling, such as surprise, anger or joy. Using an exclamation mark when writing is rather like shouting or raising your voice when speaking. Exclamation marks are most commonly used in writing quoted speech. You should avoid using exclamation marks in formal writing, unless absolutely necessary.

You have it sunk like the Titanic, its a work in progress and will be fine. So was the AMRT. You state they are in violation, me thinks the USAF is the one that determines that not you. Taxpayers via their Representatives may wight in. Perhaps, if you would try to get the dosage right you might be refrained from continually posting such an exceedingly large number of fatuous and bizarrely written posts in the comments section of this blog.

Getting the dosage right also helps in exercising good judgement; for example, by refraining from throwing out insults and one abusive ad hominem attack after another. OV, Yet again you claim to know what is going on in my head better than I do. The need is for a freighter to release the C of parcel services.

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  • With the way things are going the KC may only be fully operational long after Trump is gone. In the end, Airbus needs to max pun intended their production to higher levels, like a to mash Boeing and take advantage of the backlog. In the last few years , a number of airliners had un- contained blade failure either on takeoff roll or in the air. Pratt and GE get the inside running with the FAA over increased maintenance requirements that restrict flight ops.

    Yep, not one had to replace an entire engine let alone carry over the very parts that were failure prone or another group of parts in addition to the first group. Of course its not been flying that long and did they carry over that core that is currently a problem that takes a fair number of time to occur? If so they can get ahead of the curve and prevent hopefully the debacle that currently is in full swing still. Its builds everything from naval nuclear reactors, ship sets and diesel engines.

    Jet engines built with its partners is only a portion of the business. MTU alone has 10, employee and the have a separate power systems division Bergen Engines AS , which was until recently a joint venture. The CEO had seen overlap in its many divisions. If we throw in a the waters become even muddier as we would in essence have the longer ranger versions of the A competing with a wide body aircraft competing in a traditional NB space.

    Southwest tend to keep their planes for a long time and the US market is now pretty saturated. Indonesia not so much. You do realise Southwest last year derred delivery of some new s on order? Seems to indicate they only plan a slow ish uptake. AP Roberts will tell you that you need a lot of data. The thing about throwing the maiden in to he Volcano and it quits.

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    • Hard on maidens. Well maybe we have to throw in two this time. Air Asia is not a good example as they are as nutso as Lion. I believe both have leasing arms now as they ordered far more aircraft than they can use. As near as I can tell, all slots available are sold to someone so the bottom line is Airbus has an advantage in single aisle but not huge they make more and Boeing has an advantage in wide body.

      The RS would be a huge game changer as everyone would have to look at what they have and assess the impact. Airbus would have to look at it as well and how to respond and if its a game changer like a TWB that really jumps efficiency, then all bets are off. As GE is finding, good product without research into GTF can leave you suddenly in a dead end and by the time you respond, you are way behind like PW was in smaller and is in the larger jet engine area. PW though has nothing but upside as it has half the A, all of the A and all of the new E series.

      The A-Net debate on where the programme is and what it will contain is very dynamic bordering on the surreal. Given the situation with the A you get the impression that sense goes out the window when Big Aero meets Big Government. Only time will tell. Your email address will not be published.

      Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. Email Address. Sign me up! Leeham News and Analysis There's more to real news than a news release. Login Account. July 4, SAP and advanced manufacturing cut costs for current, new airplanes July 1, Airbus carries the day with narrowbody backlog. Charts are below. Data is based on firm orders only. Very interesting. Robert, I think you failed to scroll down on my Seattle Times story.

      Robert thanks for the follow-up. Thanks for pointing out the glitch. Domonic: Thank you for weighing in. Your column is on the top of my Aviation list. My 90 year old mother follows it as well as two of my brothers. We flew through Seattle back in the days of 24 hour layovers. This seems hard to believe info from ST. Ayer, Language, Truth and Logic. Narayan, The Guide pages. Fyodor Dostoevsky Pevear Volokhonsky translation preferred.

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